Primal Script Studio issues

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r.massone
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:44 am
Location: Australia

Primal Script Studio issues

Post by r.massone » Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:13 am

Hello,

since the release of PrimalScript 2009 I've installed any new build of each Sapien product as soon as it is released and I'm now submitting some feedback from my experience.
I'm posting in the PS 2009 because it is the product I use almost everyday.

SETUP EXPERIENCE
Primal Script Studio 2009

The package installs old versions of PrimalSQL 2009 (1.0.2) and PrimalXML (1.0.2), while the website offers PrimalSQL 2009 1.0.12 and PrimalXML 1.0.7.
When launching PSS 2009 setup using the "Select All" option, I'd like to choose common options (user, organization, base install path) only once in the main installer, skipping multiple requests and providing values for options not always correctly configured.
Setup experience is not consistent between packages.

The Welcome pages use different "themes". PrimalScript has a globe; ChangeVue, PrimalMerge, PrimalScope have the blue backgroud and a small icon; PrimalSQL and PrimalXML have an elegant customized image matching those on the website.
PrimalScript, PrimalSQL and PrimalXML have the same EULA page layout much more readable than the one used on ChangeVue, PrimalMerge and PrimalScope.
Only PrimalScript asks for Customer Informations. It may be a nice idea to ask it on the main installer only and provide the choice to each package.
The "Select Installation Folder" used on all packages except PrimalScript is better. It provides faster path editing.
No package asked for a "All users"/"Current user only" setup option, but PrimalSQ and PrimalXML placed their shortcuts on the current user Desktop and Start Menu.
On Windows XP I'm asked to specify a user to run the setup (even if I'm currently logged as the local Administrator). Choosing the current user setup fails as if Windows Installer is missing or the system is running in Safe Mode. Entering username ("Administrator") and password (the same entered upon logon) setup runs fine. This doesn't happen on Windows Vista or Windows 7 (build 7000).

PrimalScript 2009

The version numbers reported on the splash screen and on the "About PrimalScript" window are different from the one reported on the Add/Remove Programs control panel (always reported as 5.0.574)
On the first run, the "About PrimalScript" window reports only PrimalScript, PrimalSQL and PrimalXML as installed products.
It's not possible a build-to-build update of PrimalScript 2009. When launching the setup, it starts the Repair/Modify/Remove wizard. You have to uninstall current version and then install the new build. Maybe it's related to the "5.0.574" version reported on Add/Remove Programs.
PrimalScript installs PrimalForms on the "%ProgramFiles%SAPIEN Technologies, Inc" directory, even if PrimalScript is installed on another directory. It should be placed on the same directory specified on the install wizard.
PrimalScript 2009 is the only SAPIEN product reporting "SAPIEN Technologies" as Author (on Add/Remove Programs) instead of "SAPIEN Technologies, Inc.".

ChangeVue

The package needs to be launched at least once to make it appear on the "Installed Products" list of other SAPIEN products.
There's no "Check Updates" menu option on the default UI, while PrimalMerge has a similar Ribbon interface and a dedicated button on the Home section.

PrimalMerge

There's no Help menu available and the "?" button on the "Option" window doesn't work.
On the "Check for Updates" window PrimalMerge itself isn't listed.

PrimalScope

There's no Help menu available.
On the "Check for Updates" window PrimalScope itself isn't listed.

PrimalSQL

There's no Help menu available.
It's not possible a build-to-build update of PrimalSQL 2009. Trying to update PrimalSQL with the latest build downloaded from www.sapien.com adds a second PrimalSQL entry on the Add/Remove Programs list, as if the two packages are completely different products. You should uninstall PrimalSQL before upgrading. This happens even if the two products are installed on the same path (I use "%ProgramFiles%SAPIEN")
No update is found for PrimalSQL, even if the installed version (1.0.2) is older then the current one (1.0.12)
After updating to the latest build (currently 1.0.12), "Check for Updates" still reports PrimalSQL version 1.0.2.
Latest PrimalSQL install wizard has an option to choose between "Everyone" and "Just me" setup.

PrimalXML

There's no Help menu available.
It's not possible a build-to-build update of PrimalXML 2009. Trying to update PrimalXML with the latest build downloaded from www.sapien.com adds a second PrimalXML entry on the Add/Remove Programs list, as if the two packages are completely different products. You should uninstall PrimalXML before upgrading. This happens even if the two products are installed on the same path (I use "%ProgramFiles%SAPIEN")
No update is found for PrimalXML, even if the installed version (1.0.2) is older then the current one (1.0.7)
After updating to the latest build (currently 1.0.7), "Check for Updates" still reports PrimalSQL version 1.0.2.

Overall experience

The Ribbon interface isn't always consistent. Sometime the "About product" feature is "hidden" behind a customized button on the right end of the ribbon (such as in ChangeVue), sometime the icon resemble the usual "Help" icon (such as PrimalMerge, PrimalScope, PrimalSQL)
Checking for product updates lists only PrimalScript, PrimalSQL, PrimalXML and doesn't find any update, even if both PrimalSQL and PrimalXML can be updated from detected versions 1.0.2
The "Check for Updates" command is sometime placed on a page within the Option window (PrimalSQL, PrimalXML) and sometime placed on the Ribbon. This is unconsistent.
Sometime, on Windows Vista, the very first run of a couple of products (I don't remember for sure, but I believe they are PrimalMerge and ChangeVue) is missing everything on the window. There's no Ribbon, no menu. Nothing. Closing the program and starting it again fixes the UI.

I know, it's a very long post and some issue are really cosmetic, but I think there's still something to fix to make your suite really great.

Regards,

Renato Massone

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Alexander Riedel
Posts: 7023
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 4:43 pm

Primal Script Studio issues

Post by Alexander Riedel » Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:00 pm

Hi Renato.

Thank you very much for your post. I will make sure that the various teams have a look at it.

Alex
Alexander Riedel
SAPIEN Technologies, Inc.

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davidc
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Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:56 am

Primal Script Studio issues

Post by davidc » Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:03 am

We are in the process of updating some of the installers. The true version of the product is displayed in the program and doesn't necessarily match installer version displayed in the Control Panel.
Studio has the latest versions and we will update the other links as soon as possible.

Thank you for your feedback,

David
David
SAPIEN Technologies, Inc.

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r.massone
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:44 am
Location: Australia

Primal Script Studio issues

Post by r.massone » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:22 am

Hi David,

Thank for your answer. I'll wait the updated installers to provide further feedback.
I think we need more consistency within each product and between products of the Primal Script Studio bundle.

For your info this is my day-by-day experience: since I can't perceive a useful and consistent usage of version numbers on the website, I use to periodically download all of your products and check their SHA-1. This way I know what I should update on my PC and what is already updated.
In my experience, with some exception, the version number displayed on the appwiz.cpl usually match with the one on the splash screen and on the about info.
As already reported the exceptions are:

PrimalScript version number on the control panel (ARP) is inconsistent. It's always 5.0.574
PrimalSQL and PrimalXML reported version 1.0.2 on ARP, splash screen and About window when installed from the Primal Script Studio setup, but they report version 1.0.12 and 1.0.7 respectively when installed from the standalone installers downloaded at the same time of PrimalScriptStudio2009.exe.
When I find an updated package on the website, the version number on ARP is always updated.I use to manually track it on a setup.log file because I run different OS and perform some beta testing too.

On the download page there's no info about current version/build, release/update date, checksum.

Right now, if I want to be sure I have the latest build, I need to:

download 111 MB of packages on dir NEW
run some sort of file comparison between OLD and NEW dirs
delete duplicated files from dir OLD
update the products remaining on the OLD dir (non duplicated)
delete the updated products from the OLD directory
rename the NEW directory
Not very user friendly!

A final comment on the ARP version numbers: if the true version number is the one reported within the program, there's no easy way to read it using WMI (I use some software inventory vbs script that access the Win32_Product WMI class).

Regards,

Renato Massone

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davidc
Posts: 5913
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:56 am

Primal Script Studio issues

Post by davidc » Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:55 am

All the products come with a Check4Updates tool, which will notify you when there is a new version available for download. You can configure the applications to run the tool each time the application starts, thus saving you the time and effort of guessing when a new version is on the server.
You shouldn
David
SAPIEN Technologies, Inc.

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Alexander Riedel
Posts: 7023
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 4:43 pm

Primal Script Studio issues

Post by Alexander Riedel » Thu Apr 23, 2009 11:12 am

We will put a page under my.sapien.com that will list all current version numbers.
Alexander Riedel
SAPIEN Technologies, Inc.

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r.massone
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:44 am
Location: Australia

Primal Script Studio issues

Post by r.massone » Sun May 03, 2009 6:04 am

Some more feedback on the Studio setup:
I've installed the latest (05/02/2009) packages on a fresh new Windows 7 (6.1.7100) box.
It seems PrimalSQL and PrimalXML still install on the current user profile (this is where I find Start Menu entries and Desktop links). Since this box is used by more users, I copied the shortcuts to the Public Desktop or the common Start Menu.
The issue is with some installer caching and the shortcut icons: the shortcuts (when accessed from a different user) has a generic application icon.
To reproduce:

logon with the user used to setup the application (User1)
start an elevated command prompt
copy PrimalSQL and PrimalXML links from the User1's desktop to the Public's desktop
copy PrimalSQL and PrimalXML links from the User1's Start Menu to the "ProgramDataMicrosoftWindowsStart Menu"
logon with a different user (User2)
verify the shortcuts on the Desktop and on the Start Menu have the wrong icon
right click on the PrimalSQL shortcut and choose "Properties"
click on the "Change Icon" button
a warning is displayed: "Windows can't find the file %APPDATA%MicrosoftInstaller{0443DDEE-4...DC9C917928784495A3CA3D5310FD878C.exe"
it's easy to verify that the file is present on the specified path when logged on as User1.
On the very first run, PrimalMerge and PrimalScope are completely missing the user interface. Closing the program and restarting it fixes the problem and the user interface displays as expected (splash screen, ribbon, empty document).

Regards,

Renato Massone

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Alexander Riedel
Posts: 7023
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 4:43 pm

Primal Script Studio issues

Post by Alexander Riedel » Sun May 03, 2009 7:36 am

Please note that you cannot share a license among multiple users. You must obtain a proper license for each user.
SAPIEN software is always licensed per user and never per CPU.
Alexander Riedel
SAPIEN Technologies, Inc.

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r.massone
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 7:44 am
Location: Australia

Primal Script Studio issues

Post by r.massone » Mon May 04, 2009 8:31 am

Hi Alexander,

thanks for your answer.
I'd like to describe my current envinronment to make sure it doesn't violate the EULA and because it may represent a usage scenario.

My primary PC is a dual booting notebook where I run both and RTM OS (Windows Vista SP1) and a beta OS (Vista SP2 for some months and Windows 7 right now). SAPIEN software is installed on this PC, wich is exclusively owned and used by me.

My environment, whether RTM or beta, always has three different user profile:

a LOCAL administrative account, usually named "root", to set up the OS and applications. This isn't a renamed Administrator, this is the account created at the end of OS setup wizard. It has UAC turned on, to match the default end user experience.
a DOMAIN account, with local administrative rights, used as my work account. It is never used to setup software, add OS features or install major service packs. It has UAC turned on, of course.
a DOMAIN account, with standard user rights, used to test end user experience on domain environment. This user is used only when an issue is detected and need some testing.
Each of these accounts (no matter if domain or local) is exclusively used by me. No one else.Does this scenario is compliant with current SAPIEN EULA?
A side note: it may be useful to have the EULA accessible from the "Help" menu of each product. I can't find any easy way to read it once the software is installed.
PS: I know Windows 7 is currently unsupported and beta testing may lead to unpredictable results. But beta-testing is my hobby since the Windows NT 4 years...

Regards,

Renato Massone

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Alexander Riedel
Posts: 7023
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 4:43 pm

Primal Script Studio issues

Post by Alexander Riedel » Mon May 04, 2009 8:48 am

Hi Renato.

Thank you for clarifying. The scenario you describe is perfectly fine.

User in this context means "person" not user id in a Windows or network sense.

You can always review our EULA here:
http://www.primaltools.com/eula.asp

We have updated the PrimalXML and PrimalSQL installers, but that means that the current "per user" installations have to be uninstalled first. The new PrimalScript Studio installer will do that automatically.

We appreciate your input and will work to make the installation as perfect as we can.

Alex
Alexander Riedel
SAPIEN Technologies, Inc.